My 406 Project.

Tech Related Discussion

Postby Daves406 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:29 am

Chad Speier wrote:1150 mod carb

14.0-1 compression


Is that your first guess at the carb size..?? Do you think that'll be too much for that combo..? Grant it with your touch's to the heads and intake,, that would seem to be alot considering most/all Nascar motor's are making un-restricted over 800+ HP with a 4150 base carb..?
Just curious on your thoughts. :wink:
www.apdracing.com
Level performance 419-334-9470
Daves406
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: ohio

Postby SStrokerAce » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:44 am

Daves406 wrote:
Chad Speier wrote:1150 mod carb

14.0-1 compression


Is that your first guess at the carb size..?? Do you think that'll be too much for that combo..? Grant it with your touch's to the heads and intake,, that would seem to be alot considering most/all Nascar motor's are making un-restricted over 800+ HP with a 4150 base carb..?
Just curious on your thoughts. :wink:


Are you drunk???? OR you are just using redneck math to figure that out?

That setup should still pull 1" or more at max RPM, I'd consider something larger honestly.

Cup motors HAVE to run that 850 carb and they pull some serious vacuum at 9400rpm with it at that, if they could run a Dominator they would! There would be a easy 30hp in a Cup motor that is already making 850+hp.
SStrokerAce
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:13 am

Postby banjo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:08 am

My 600hp 406 SBC, pulls .85 at 7000 rpms with a 1050 Dominator. When I get it right, I expect an easy .10 over my 830 racedemon which is pulling 1.75. Chad turning 7500 will easily use that 1150.

Dave, you shouldn't believe everything your daddy tells you :P
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com
banjo
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:29 am

Postby Chad Speier » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:29 am

Lets not forget I race in ALTITUDE, like 5000 DA average.

I want 1150+ to be honest, maybe more if I can get it.
Chad Speier
Image
Chad Speier
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Hays, Kansas

Postby SStrokerAce » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:55 pm

That's some shitty DA! Your down about 50-60hp from SAE conditions just because of your air and altitude.

I'm guessing you are running a standard journal cam here? Can we try more rocker rather than more lobe? I'd like to see more lift than that to really make her run! We can do that the hard way with the lobe but you are already up there to begin with!
SStrokerAce
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:13 am

Postby Chad Speier » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:06 pm

Yep, shitty is a nice word for it! All my internet friends who race in "good" air have NO IDEA what it's like! NONE, ZERO, NADA...

Yes standard cam tunnel. My "main" goal was enough to avoid choke. And I hear you on more lift. This started out as a "shelf" build. I wanted to use shelf type components.
Chad Speier
Image
Chad Speier
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Hays, Kansas

Postby SStrokerAce » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:47 pm

Chad Speier wrote:Yep, shitty is a nice word for it! All my internet friends who race in "good" air have NO IDEA what it's like! NONE, ZERO, NADA...

Yes standard cam tunnel. My "main" goal was enough to avoid choke. And I hear you on more lift. This started out as a "shelf" build. I wanted to use shelf type components.


Well rocker arms are shelf parts!

Besides all roller cams are shelf parts!
SStrokerAce
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:13 am

Postby Chad Speier » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:51 pm

SStrokerAce wrote:
Chad Speier wrote:Yep, shitty is a nice word for it! All my internet friends who race in "good" air have NO IDEA what it's like! NONE, ZERO, NADA...

Yes standard cam tunnel. My "main" goal was enough to avoid choke. And I hear you on more lift. This started out as a "shelf" build. I wanted to use shelf type components.


Well rocker arms are shelf parts!

Besides all roller cams are shelf parts!


True, but I'm going to use a Mahle Powerpak and I'm not sure I'll have any compression if I have to cut the valve reliefs. I did mow the combustion chamber down. Although the cam is 112...
Chad Speier
Image
Chad Speier
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Hays, Kansas

Postby Daves406 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:05 pm

banjo wrote:Dave, you shouldn't believe everything your daddy tells you :P


Banjo Billy,,, ain't daddy tellin me shit... going by what i've seen and told by and built by APD... :wink: :wink: Oh and my cam suggested by him has me only .2 behind your best in "good" air ,,untuned .. :P

Just for instance a little 358 cube Yates heads sbf motor made 991HP with a little 275 shot of freeze.. same motor made 670HP @ 7400 with a 1000 cfm 4150 base carb, 13:8 comp and a little roller of 712/721 112 lobe....

Again Chad,,,just was curious to see what YOUR thoughts were as too running a carb that big and the effects on torque/low end in the motor..
www.apdracing.com
Level performance 419-334-9470
Daves406
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: ohio

Postby banjo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:08 pm

Dave,

My motor picked up torque acrossed the entire rpm range with the dominator and that was without any jet changes. If tuned properly a dominator will make more power. A carb that is to small on a motor is more forgiving with the tune. A dominator takes a little more work to get right, and based on your experiance, I am sure that is why apd told you what they did.

Not saying that a smaller carb won't make power, you are just leaving something on the table.

As far as your car, its hard to be impressed with something when the information given about it is inaccurate or inflated. Also consider that my current best is run with a 4.10 gear, Since putting the .56 gears in, car has run within .01 of best at my local track and 2 mph faster and there is about 4000 feet of CA differance. I not making any predictions on how much, but the current best will fall this spring.

BTW, I though you didn't need to tune on APD carbs?
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com
banjo
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:29 am

Postby Daves406 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:48 pm

banjo wrote: As far as your car, its hard to be impressed with something when the information given about it is inaccurate or inflated. I not making any predictions on how much, but the current best will fall this spring.

BTW, I though you didn't need to tune on APD carbs?


Haven't nor will i have to tune this APD carb.. As it won't be rejetted,air bleeds changed NADA..
As for being "untuned" a simple playing with the timing will let me know "what" this motor will like and run.. :wink: As it's still on the 28* mark on the ATI dampner..

As for incorrect info and or inaccurate or inflated,, i'll more than gladly share anything about this nothing special 408 sbc and the weight of this bone stock suspended car weighing in at 3364 lbs w/driver at last Fri nite Chaos race.. :lol:
www.apdracing.com
Level performance 419-334-9470
Daves406
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: ohio

Postby banjo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:00 pm

I am sure you will share any info. :roll:

I guess you will be leaving a bit on the table, not even rejetting the carb. Is APD telling you not to mess with jets,or do you just not have the confidence in yourself to making it better.

With as many passes as you make, you will have the timing sorted out sometime next year? :P
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com
banjo
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:29 am

Postby Daves406 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:07 pm

banjo wrote:I am sure you will share any info. :roll:

With as many passes as you make, you will have the timing sorted out sometime next year? :P


What would you like to know Bill about the motor..?? Nothing special here to hide... As for pass's timing will be sorted out within a day.. :wink: :wink: Also as for the carb we'll see "what" the temp guage tell's me as for jetting as for only 28* in the motor now it is a tad rich.. :P

As for the pass's nope your right,, having more fun with my now 1 yr old daughter..
www.apdracing.com
Level performance 419-334-9470
Daves406
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: ohio

Postby banjo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:48 pm

Nothing in which I would consider creditible info.

Chad, I apologize for littering up your thread with this banter. I am done.
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com
banjo
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:29 am

Postby jmarkaudio » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:53 pm

Dave, we ran a 1050 on a dish piston 406, with near stock vortecs, large hydraulic cam, Super Victor intake. On 93 octane at 2800 lbs it it was a little quicker than an 800 and ran consistent 10.50's all day long. It was a t-brake car with a lot of converter, however when working with a footbrake car with less than optimum converter and/or gear a smaller carb will be easier to tune correctly. Running a larger carb is no different than running two smaller ones, when tuned correctly more air will turn into more HP AND torque. A 1250 on the 447 SB2 made about 20 HP more and was about a tenth faster than a 1050. If I could get bigger without a large increase in cost I would. I can buy a tunnel ram cheaper than a larger carb and since I have plenty of 1050's to play with it will be the least expensive choice if I decide I need to go faster.

As another note, why not bury the hatchet with Banjo and try making constructive comments and suggestions. We are all here to learn from each other and help each other.
Mark Whitener
Image
____________

Good work isn't cheap, and cheap work can't be good.
jmarkaudio
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:58 pm
Location: Florida

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest