Airwolf Results!!!

Tech Related Discussion

Postby jmarkaudio » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:07 pm

Heavy car, Glide, and footbrake especially need the shorter LSA to get your ET, consistency won't be an issue. I would try advancing what you have first to save money, try 4 to 6˚ advanced, even 8˚ if you have room.
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Postby Scott Smith » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:46 pm

8 degrees advanced puts the ICL at 102.
The downside to that is it puts the ECL at 118

We have built a ton of 406 to 412s.
They are always happiest at 108 LSA and 108 to 106 ICL.
279 to 282/288 with 14 points or more.

Any more and they just beat them selves to death and don't run any faster.
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Postby Scott Smith » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:47 pm

Oh one more thing. We have ran 110s before.
The upside is they make a ton of valve clearance. The down side is they wont fall out of tree below 4800 RPM launch.
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Postby Chad Speier » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Throw some cam in it and turn up the wick!

You won't hurt it, unless your scared :lol:
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Postby banjo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:47 pm

For right now I am going to play with with I have and see what I can get out of it. When I get the bug to go faster, A cam change will be in the works...
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
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Postby Chad Speier » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:52 pm

banjo wrote:For right now I am going to play with with I have and see what I can get out of it. When I get the bug to go faster, A cam change will be in the works...


It's your project and if your happy like it is, thats all that matters.

Shift points and carb tuning will do wonders.
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Postby Daves406 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:50 pm

banjo wrote: When I get the bug to go faster, A cam change will be in the works...


And "what" do you call you doing to the motor now..??? :roll: :roll:
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Postby Scott Smith » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:02 pm

Put a Pro Systems SVI on it. Thats 50hp. :o

Sorry I couldn't resist. :P
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Postby trmnatr » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:18 pm

banjo wrote:Regarding the Camshaft, wouldn't it be better to run a wider LSA in a small tire footbrake car? My understanding of this is a wider LSA broadens the powerband and makes the motor less peaky. A narrower LSA makes the motor more peaky and more torque and a narrower power band. I may pickup some ET, but i would think it may be at the expense of consistancy. I would also think the broader powerband would work better with the glide.

The camshaft is a custom grind, I told them the engine specs and car specs and he was spot on where the cam would make power. I even went back to him for a cam for the new heads will goals of 650 hp at 7000. He told me that provided the heads flowed what they showed, I wouldn't need a bigger cam to hit the goals. He was spot on on both occasions.

I am open for discussion and opinions. Later down the road, I would be willing to try a camshaft change with the narrower LSA.


Your gonna need to raise the duration

The car will leave the same if not better, The car is gonna ET MUCH MUCH faster down the track

To give you an example we are in the same DA' usually, We are at sea level but it gets so stinking hot and humid that DA' is 2500' on average

When we go up to Mason Dixon (550' above sea level) DA' is usually 3300' and it slows us down about .1 in ET, Mostly on the big end, 60' about the same
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Postby trmnatr » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:27 pm

banjo wrote:For right now I am going to play with with I have and see what I can get out of it. When I get the bug to go faster, A cam change will be in the works...


You may have missed it

I said you could use this cam, You better have 650 to 700 open pressure at cam lift with a good pushrod

307/313 @.020"
278/284 @.050"
198/204 @.200"
.452"/.452" lobe lift
106 degree lobe seperation
.678"/.678" with 1.5's

This thing is stupid fast (the ramps) , They did some hairy $hit for me on the intake lobe.

When you grind a small block chevy cam you use a master made for that journal size, My guy did two cams in order to get the specs where we wanted it

They took a "B" core, SB Chevy, ground it with a 282 @.050" "C" master (for BB Chevy) which gave it an inverted radius which we wanted but was just over 280 @.050"

Then took a 280 @.050" "C" master and ground it, It cam in right at 278 @.050" with an inverted radius. It's acceleration rate is very high on the intake lobe but it makes great torque. There has been 3 of this grind done exactly like this, two for us and one for a Super Stock engine that did VERY WELL in a Corvette
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Postby trmnatr » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:29 pm

If you wanted to buy a cam you could look at the Comp 12-865-9

307/317 @.020"
278/284 @.050"
201/197 @.200"
.684"/.660"
106 degree lobe seperation

With either one of those cams, I could see you picking up .5 when you get everything working together with the new cam (tune up, suspension, converter etc)
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Postby banjo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:46 pm

Thanks for the offer, but I am going to tune what I have. Later down the road, if the offer still stands I may take you up on it. My current springs are set up 240 @ 1.900 and 595 @ 1.250. So I would need a new set of springs to try it out.

Alot of people out in internet land don't understand or appreciate running at higher altitudes. My current track is at 2000 feet and if I go to San Antonio which is at 600 feet. Even if the temp and humidy are the same I am at least a .1 faster. I would love to get to houston, because that track is right at sealevel.

I don't know scott, I wouldn't want to put that on there, I would be afraid to melt the headers off. :roll:
Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com
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Postby trmnatr » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:53 pm

banjo wrote:Regarding the Camshaft, wouldn't it be better to run a wider LSA in a small tire footbrake car? My understanding of this is a wider LSA broadens the powerband and makes the motor less peaky. A narrower LSA makes the motor more peaky and more torque and a narrower power band. I may pickup some ET, but i would think it may be at the expense of consistancy. I would also think the broader powerband would work better with the glide.

The camshaft is a custom grind, I told them the engine specs and car specs and he was spot on where the cam would make power. I even went back to him for a cam for the new heads will goals of 650 hp at 7000. He told me that provided the heads flowed what they showed, I wouldn't need a bigger cam to hit the goals. He was spot on on both occasions.

I am open for discussion and opinions. Later down the road, I would be willing to try a camshaft change with the narrower LSA.


Let me give my opinion on this

You can take it to the bank or ignore it, But it works for me

When I set me car/engine/trans/rear up, I dont give $.02 about what it does down low.

If my converter is a 5,500rpm (using your converter stall for an example) and the peak HP is say 6,800rpm, I only care what the engine does from 5,500rpm to ~7,500rpm for a drag race engine. I will make it respond to the converter, And I have done so with they way we set up our carburetors (See videos below)

I don't like to have my shift point any more than 2000rpm away from my converter stall rpm / flash rpm that i see on the launch, I prefer to be with in 1,500rpm, In my opinion the higher you turn that engine the more the converter tries to lock up putting a higher load on the engine, This you dont want until the car is rolling in high gear and shift point does effect this !

It doesnt bother me to turn the engine up 3000rpm past the converter in high gear, we already have the car going, but not in low on a powerglide or 1-2 & 2-3 on a 3 speed

For example, My 400 in the car is 12.38:1, GM 291 heads bowl ported and exhaust runners polished by me and I am no means a head porter at all, if anything Im just someone who has done a few sets and the first few sets were boat anchors so i learned what to phuck with and what not too, 256/264 @.050" .545"/.563" 105 lobe seperation installed at 102 , powerglide with 5,200rpm stall, shift point at 6,000 to 6,400 depending on track

Here are the times, There was NO TRACK PREP so 60' times SUCKED. Race weight is 2,850 pounds so I am lighter but not by alot. We have a solid 10.0/9.90 pass when the track prep is there and the car is not bouncing off the rear springs causing it to shake the tires. IIRC the DA on these runs were 1900'
Pass 1 off the trailer
60' 1.41
330' 4.178
660' 6.504 @105.68mph
1000' 8.521
1/4 10.247 @130.97mph
Notes: tire spin after leave 20' out

PAss 2, loosen the shocks and drop air pressure from pass 1 settings
60' 1.445 (shook the tires and got sideways with nose of car aiming 11-11:30)
330' 4.23
660' 6.572 @105.14mph
1000' 8.593
1/4 10.322 @130.58mph
Notes: shook a little on the gear change, believe it it hit the converter on shift and shook - shift @6,000rpm so we are raising the shift rpm to 6400rpm. We also were bouncing off the rev limiter @ 7200rpm on this pass

Pass 3, back to pass one settings with 1 extra click to stiff
60' 1.418
330' 4.19
660' 6.51 @106.06mph
1000' 8.515
1/4 10.228 @132.06mph
Notes: still have tire spin off the line but getting better, shifted @ 6400rpm and ran 6800rpm past the lights

Pass 4, no changes
60' 1.42
330' 4.174
660' 6.483 @106.56mph
1000' 8.482
1/4 10.190 @132.28mph
Notes: still had tire spin, for about 6-8'

I am telling you to help you, not to knock you or anything like that so please dont take it that way.

With the times, knowing what heads and cam that engine has, You could be .5 quicker with some minor tuning and camshaft change. To be honest I'm not scared to say 5.90's

What were you shifting at? Even though the engine makes given HP at a given RPM that doesnt mean thats where it needs to be shifted, Its all relative to the loads put on it in gear accelerating

Here is a video of the Chevelle, 4,080 pounds race weight back then with a carb that flows over 900cfm, 6,200rpm stall (a little higher than yours but this is a 327 and much heavier car) and the 307/313 @.020" camshaft on a 106 lobe seperation installed @ 106 intake centerline. It has no problems coming up on the converter from a dead idle, however squirters, bleeds and drill bits are your best friend and it will work.

Chevelle with the 307/313 @.020" Camshaft, the 60' was a 1.765 and the 1/8 was 7.49 @94.93mph with 11.645 @118.98mph , the engine has ran over 122-124mph, Some IDIOT ( :oops: :oops: ) adjusted the valves and un-hooked the rev-limit wire, adjusted them then didnt hook it back up. We snatched the springs and they were down on seat pressure over 50 pounds (the RPM's were WAY HIGH in low gear, springs are JUNK after that, they were pressure tested a few weeks before too and were fine)
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Your car Bill has ALOT left in it, Unlock it
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Postby chevybowstik » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:54 pm

Banjo i ran a very similar cam in a 406.Car weighed 3150 lbs with powerglide and 4.30 gear 9by 30 slick.Was a 70 nova,cam was 260-266 with a 108 separation.I agree with you as it was very easy to drive being a footbrake car.I swapped cams to a 265-275 on a 104 separation and this NOTICEABLY made more torque as the convertor loosened up 500 rpm just with the cam change.Remember bracket racing is all about reaction time and et repeatability! But being gearheads we always want to go faster! Its like a disease but a good one to have!Great job Chad and DRJ
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Postby trmnatr » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:55 pm

banjo wrote:Thanks for the offer, but I am going to tune what I have. Later down the road, if the offer still stands I may take you up on it. My current springs are set up 240 @ 1.900 and 595 @ 1.250. So I would need a new set of springs to try it out.

Alot of people out in internet land don't understand or appreciate running at higher altitudes. My current track is at 2000 feet and if I go to San Antonio which is at 600 feet. Even if the temp and humidy are the same I am at least a .1 faster. I would love to get to houston, because that track is right at sealevel.

I don't know scott, I wouldn't want to put that on there, I would be afraid to melt the headers off. :roll:


The offer will still stand, I have two of them, one in the engine and one in the box. There has only been 3 cut and a Super Stock racer got the thrid one

It will kill those springs IMO

Our springs were 260 seat, we that is the least i will run on cams that i use, After that pass pressures were ~200-210
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